Tulpa.info - tulpa-discussion

In what sense do you "notice" the thoughts? Is there a limit to the complexity of thoughts before they "must be" noticed, if I'm making sense here?

4:06 PM

Any I would love to get many many responses to this. It's a topic I think needs a lot more exploration in regards to tulpa. The presence of thought is a big deal and not covered much.

I'm not sure what you mean. The individual thoughts making up the steps of the complex process are noticed more similar to the latter case you mentioned - "coming as if out of nowhere". However, the overall more complicated thought process is noticed as the smaller individual steps are worked through.

For us, we end up hearing each other's thoughts as we think them. It's really disorienting and hard to see who's thoughts were who's until after we send the message. I'm still working on full words that aren't "lorem ipsum" on a consistent basis. (edited)

My main thought is that tulpas are often phrased as a "coming out of nowhere" process from step one. The process of the tulpa thinking is said to be a "black box". I imagine a tulpa, for example, coming out of nowhere with large well formed opinions as if they were thinking up those opinions in the background.

In short: Complex thoughts are "heard" as they are made up of a longer process of smaller, "black box" thoughts".

4:07 PM

Ah. Yes, we have done that.

4:08 PM

But then, we do also understand the basis of each other's opinions - so it is not quite so mysterious.

A black box?

An enclosed system

stuff goes in, stuff comes out, but you cant see what goes on inside of it

Got it. Does that go both ways?

4:09 PM

Tulpas can't see our thought process? Or was that what the discussion above was about? (edited)

My main wonder is if it would be beneficial to think of tulpa as "normally" needing to have their thoughts voiced and heard in some form in order to have complex thoughts at all. Someone who does not practice to hear the complex parts over time will be stuck with a tulpa whose only thoughts can be the "smaller black box thoughts" which results in a lot of the simple-minded tulpa you see about.

...does it?

But I don't know if I'm talking crazy and complex thoughts are something that can just go on in the background with no engagement or "hearing" by the host. (edited)

I thought they were complex from the minute you start tulpamancing?

I don't mean to say that is the case, but to propose it as a possible explanation

It's a hypothesis

Indeed.

To be analyzed and hopefully tested

There's so much to discover!

And I am interested to see what others might think of it, should it match or not match their experiences or thoughts

@Deleted User I thought they were complex from the minute you start tulpamancing?

4:12 PM

Certainly not.

4:13 PM

It takes quite a bit of time for a fairly simple behavioral change such as a habit to be formed - just that alone took people a minimum of over 2 weeks, with consistent reminders and repeated reinforcement of that habit every single day.

4:13 PM

(In an actual experiment - the minimum was around... I believe 17 days - the average was closer to 50 days.)

4:14 PM

I can try to pull up the link to it if you would rather I use that instead of my memory, hah.

4:15 PM

At the very least, however. I think it is fairly clear that an "autonomous" tulpa is posited to be quite a bit more behaviorally complex than a single habit - which would heavily imply that the learned behavior of a tulpa also takes a proportionally larger amount of time to develop and establish fully in the brain.

Who told you they were complex from the minute you start forcing? Whoever said that was either intentionally trying to mislead you, or is a very ignorant person and not a reliable source

Indeed.

I probably misunderstood the guides

4:15 PM

Actually, it was a common belief in 2012-2014

Tulpas Take Time™

That I know

Or otherwise incorrect. I can imagine some people being correct on quite a few points about tulpas, but wrong about that one.

I'm a year into mine and still no consistent speech

You didn't misunderstand, the guides and community at large do a lot to give impressions on tulpa that are very different from the common experience, so far as I am aware.

Damn the moderators on this server are honestly so experienced in this. o/

And personal experience still might vary from the norm as well

Indeed. Quite a few 'guides' are subjective claims about "this is how I feel I experienced it" and saying that it is... factual - even if some claims are incompatible with existing knowledge about how the brain works.

...but such "existing knowledge" is still founded upon theories

Also, @Deleted User - part of what helps a person become a moderator is demonstrating that they know what they are talking about and is willing to both help new people as well as engage in respectful and reasonable discussion.

@OverSavior #server-discussion for suggestions like that

Very plausible theories, but theories nonetheless

...typically.

@SkyeNet I can tell. The moderators are mainly the one's who speak in this lmao, I see you guys on here 24-7 typing non stop. It's pretty incredible.

Correction: That "existing knowledge" is also founded on actual experiments.

But there's no guarantee the experiments covered all the bases

I am weary about mentorship like that Arseny, because the sort of person to so strongly "attach themselves to others to help them" gives themselves a lot of power over that person, and the sort of people who seek that power are not those I tend to trust. (edited)

Theories are conclusions drawn from eexperiments which were as controlled as possible.

Like I said, very plausible theories

4:19 PM

But there's always the chance that some edge case was missed

Maybe lounge then? There's already another discussion going on here

Of course - but such is the way of knowledge.

But not everyone understands that

4:19 PM

And then cites "existing evidence" as fact

How do you set up an experiment for tulpa?

I think a suggestion about a potential chat program like that would best belong in server discussion?

4:19 PM

What do you want to test, Eevee/Actual?

And, of course, something pushing against the understanding based on prior experiments should... be presented with experimental evidence itself, or otherwise propose good reason to investigate the veracity of the claim.

You were referencing experiments.

Oh. Eevee, I was referring to how scientific theories are produced.

Oh

Whether it is in psychology or other fields of science.

It just bothers me when people forget that science is still founded on faith

You have to believe that this is reality to do anything.

4:21 PM

Otherwise you're stuck

Ugh. Not this again. The difference is the amount of assumptions required - and part of science is trying to minimize unprovable assumptions.

^

4:21 PM

Brb

My sister is trying to make a tulpa named Kwiky (pronounced quickie) I can't believe it was this easy to get her interested in tulpas. I can't wait until our tulpas are developed enough to have conversations with each other, but that will take a while!

I can't wait till we're in highschool, it's basically a complete fresh start for us... new friends, new people to talk to, hopefully people to trust with knowledge of me~

"hopefully people to trust with knowledge of me~" This never ends well

6:27 PM

Yep

6:27 PM

Which is why nobody IRL has been trusted yet

6:28 PM

Having told someone about it, there is really no benefit to doing it

6:28 PM

It doesn't always end bad

6:28 PM

Yeah, but you can't get anything out of it. It's always gonna be awkward for the other person

6:29 PM

MarkdownContext { Depth = 1 }

6:29 PM

I'd like to have friends who I can trust with my tulpas

6:29 PM

You are very unlikely to find any irl

6:30 PM

I'm just hoping for it... no clue if it'll happen or not

6:30 PM

Well, actually, I know some other tulpamancers irl...

6:30 PM

But I wouldn't really call them friends.

6:30 PM

Well, unless they're tulpamancers :P

6:32 PM

And otherwise, I'm a bit ashamed of being part of this community. There is a lot of crap here and usually when I meet the topic outside the community it's bashed hard. Probably for good reasons.

6:32 PM

Indeed it is

6:32 PM

The community has an abysmal reputation. You only need to look at the /r/tulpas Discord to see why.

6:33 PM

~~Or tulpa.pl~~

6:33 PM

Not been on there

6:33 PM

Or some facebook groups about tulpas

6:34 PM

Filled with a lot of consfused kids

6:34 PM

It's a sad state of affairs (edited)

6:36 PM

The good question is how to change things

6:37 PM

Well, that's the question, isn't it?

6:37 PM

I think it is

6:37 PM

An imo answer is: we can't

6:37 PM

Eh, I think you can